Christianity-New Age dialogue #1

A few months ago, i entered into a dialogue with a friend who was questioning classic Christianity. Currently, I am engaged in a discussion with a former student from when I was on staff with InterVarsity. He has agreed to allow me to post our discussion. His name will be Josh for these postings.

On Sep 8, 2009, Josh wrote:

Hey man! How are things going? I hope well. Still having those moments with God when you wonder off by yourself to be silent? That was some good stuff. I'm not sure if I ever thanked you, but I would like to now.

Thank you for being one of my spiritual mentors. You taught me a lot (I think so anyway) at a time when I thought I knew it all. You showed me patience, wisdom, understanding, humility, friendship, a greater knowing of God, and I like to think much more. For that I will always be grateful.

New age is the closest thing that comes to describing my belief system currently, but I don't resonate with some of the things I have heard they teach.
I still love to talk about Christianity though, and if you like we can dialogue about spirituality whether it be on a Christian platform, a new agey platform, or just plain talking about the love of god. Here's a possible topic: the second coming of Christ.

I honestly believe that christ will return, but not in the way I formerly thought. I have received (from God in through my experiences) that we are the literal body of christ. You can look at that as being just the Christian church if you like, but that would not be an accurate description of my vision. I think that we will experience the second coming when we remember christ, that is, when we re-member him. Let's look at this from a christian view. When the church is finally united, when one can accept another as a brother or a sister despite our differences in theology, practice, sins, personality, or any other difference, the church will experience the second coming. I think the church will be raptured in joy. Of course, I could be way off base here. If the church could simply show real unconditional love to one another, the message would be so appealing that thousands upon thousands would convert just to experience that slice of heaven that is fellowship with loved ones.

Take care, hope to keep in better touch with you in the future.

HD blessings to you
Josh

On Sep 22, 2009 Scott wrote:

Josh,

On your thoughts. i have a few questions for you. Could you go into more depth describing your current belief system? What do you resonate with in new age and what don't you resonate with? What do you currently believe on Christ, and sin, and salvation?

On your thoughts about the 2nd coming: I like your thought that we are the literal body of Christ. That is very scriptural. Here are a few passages that support this perspective very well:
Rom. 7:4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
1Cor. 10:16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
1Cor. 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
Eph. 4:12 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

The Romans passage says we now belong to Jesus Christ, we are his body. And as his body we are to refrain from sin and seek and pursue righteousness. We are to play the part He determines in advancing His kingdom and His purposes in the world. And what are those purposes, Ephesians 4:13 goes on to say, "until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." This is God's express purpose for his body, the church. God desires that everyone come to a knowledge and conviction that the Son of God is the standard of righteousness and none can achieve that standard unless they are united to Christ.

While I can agree with some of your application of this perspective, specifically that we should be more accepting and understanding of fellow believers and our various styles and that this will show the world that we are believers "if we have love one for another," there is the question of "When does one profess to be a believer and yet everything about their teaching contradicts the proclamations of Jesus himself? Is such a one to be fully welcomed and embraced as a Christian and their perspectives to be adopted?" Galatians 1:8 distinctly calls us to right belief saying "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" This is not an excuse to be unloving, but a call to love someone so much that we aren't content to let false doctrine permeate the body. 1Tim. 4:16 tells us to "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers." Both living and thought are important to the Father.

And yet, you are on to something, for 1John 2:19 tells us "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." In short, if people are willing to remain in the church espousing Christ as saviour, we must accept them, but if they try to pervert that Gospel or twist it or change it, we need to, we must, in love for them and those they may influence, correct and rebuke them so that they can be trained in all godliness (2 Tim 3:16).

I believe you are right that such a love and affinity for Christ and fellow believers would be compelling, it is the history of the early church. Thousands of converts during times of persecution because believers loved one another so much. It was compelling and inviting, but is that all that Christ promises as part of his return? Is it just that this physical world becomes harmonious but is still indwelt with sinful men and women and children living in sinful bodies, on an earth that groans because of the curse on the ground (Gen 3)? No, there is so much more. Christ promises to return and to entirely remake this earth, for it will be destroyed by fire:
2Pet. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
2Pet. 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
2Pet. 3:12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
2Pet. 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
2Pet. 3:14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

And the Revelation records,
Rev. 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Rev. 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev. 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

The final score is that life on the new earth will be fundamentally different than life on this earth. God himself will dwell with all those who survive the judgement seat of Christ (Rev 19-20) and a new world devoid of sin and sinful men will come into existence.

Rev. 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
Rev. 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Rev. 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Rev. 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

But will this merely come into being because we love one another. Does carte blanche acceptance of others erase sin and sinful action in others. On the contrary, life and experience tell us that when we accept someone who robs us and cheats us, we will be cheated repeatedly by that person and they will degrade in moral character, rather it is when we confront them and refuse to accept their actions that transformation in the person and relationship occurs. The same is true inside the church. When we accept the heresies of the day, more heresies are propagated and more people deceived, but when we confront and refuse to accept the errors, right doctrine goes forth and is embraced. Acceptance and love do not always mean compromise on the truth.

These are my initial thoughts on your post. I would love to hear what you think in response. BTW, could I post our discussions on my blog? I will anonymize you, of course.

Scott Roberts